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I always remembered them as saying in WotMC that the Tortoise were founded on the eve of what was to be Kasuga's seppuku. Muhaki gave Kasuga a year to prepare, thus wouldn't the Tortoise have been founded in 443? Dapperdanman1983

...Even further is possible. Kasuga left with the gaijin, then returned with them. I'm not sure how much time that round trip would have taken. So who has some good references? ~ShibaRyu~ Rings.png Calendar.gif 00:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
3rd Ed p. 12. quote:"Muhaki assumes throne. Shortly thereafter the Emperor bestows Minor CLan status upon Agasha Kasuga and his followers," <snip> "The Tortoise Clan is born."
It mentions nothing about taking a year before happening. In fact it gives the impression it happens not long after Muhaki takes the throne. --Majushi 11:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks good to me, then. ~ShibaRyu~ Rings.png Calendar.gif 18:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)